Episode 8

full
Published on:

7th Dec 2025

SEO Doesn't Work If You Don't F**king Let It!

I’ve lost count of the businesses that hire an SEO expert, pay good money, and then make it impossible for us to actually do the job.

Hi, I'm Nikki Pilkington. My site is https://nikki-pilkington.com/ and in this episode of SEO F**king What, I’m calling out the ridiculousness I sometimes see when a business hires an SEO. Not you. You wouldn't do any of this, I'm sure. But we'll explore some of the absolute sh*ttery that can go down when one of us SEO experts gets hired by someone who doesn't understand what our role in their business actually is!

If you want fluffy LinkedIn advice, this isn’t the show for you.

But if you’re ready to stop sabotaging your own results and work with an SEO like a grown-up, hit play.

This one might sting a bit — but it’ll make you money, which is all I f**king care about.

Timestamped summary

00:00 Freelancing Isn't Remote Employment

04:26 Clients Restricting Access Harms Results

09:00 Empower Your SEO Expert

10:45 Respect Freelancers for Better Results

This episode is all about helping you ensure your SEO is equipped to do their job properly.

But you'll have even better results from your SEO by having me in your corner, and I offer supervision and set up of these kinds of arrangements as a service - https://nikki-pilkington.com/seo-training-and-development-uk/

Want to check out more episodes? https://seofuckingwhatpodcast.co.uk/

Transcript
Speaker:

You've hired an SEO expert, you've paid them good money, and

Speaker:

then you spend all your time either breathing down their neck like a

Speaker:

paranoid boss or telling them to stay in their lane.

Speaker:

Either way, you're sabotaging your own results. Let's do

Speaker:

this.

Speaker:

This is SEO fucking one. I'm Nicky. I've been in SEO

Speaker:

for over 30 years before it was even called SEO.

Speaker:

I help people like you make money from your website

Speaker:

by actually getting found in search. And today, we're

Speaker:

tackling something that's been coming up more and more. The two

Speaker:

ways businesses completely fuck up working with SEO

Speaker:

freelancers and consultants.

Speaker:

You either micromanagers, like we're your newest graduate hire

Speaker:

who can't be trusted to make a cup of tea, or you go the opposite

Speaker:

direction and refuse to let us anywhere near the information we

Speaker:

need to do the job properly. Both approaches are costing you

Speaker:

money. And honestly, both are driving good SEO people

Speaker:

away from working with you. Let me tell you about

Speaker:

a client I parted ways with recently.

Speaker:

Every time I asked for conversion data, you know, the stuff that

Speaker:

tells me whether the traffic I'm bringing in is actually doing anything good,

Speaker:

I got told to stay in my lane. Every time I suggested moving

Speaker:

a call to action button because it was buried at the bottom of the page

Speaker:

like a shameful secret, I got the same response.

Speaker:

That's not SEO. Stick to what you know. We've got it under

Speaker:

control. Thanks. We'll let you know if our internal experts need your help.

Speaker:

I get it. You've got departments, you've got territories.

Speaker:

Everyone's got their little kingdom that they're protecting. But this

Speaker:

is what people don't seem to understand. SEO doesn't

Speaker:

exist in a vacuum. It never has. And it

Speaker:

really, really definitely doesn't these days.

Speaker:

Hiring an SEO expert but not letting them look at the bigger picture

Speaker:

is like hiring a plumber to fix your leaky tap. But telling

Speaker:

them they're not allowed to check your water pressure. They might get the tap working,

Speaker:

but you're still going to have problems. And we all know who you're going to

Speaker:

blame when your ceiling falls down. So let's talk about the

Speaker:

two main ways that businesses fuck this up.

Speaker:

First of all, the micromanagement problem.

Speaker:

Treating freelancers like employees, and not even good

Speaker:

employees, more like employees you don't trust to wipe their own

Speaker:

asses. I've had clients who wanted daily check

Speaker:

ins daily for SEO work. What am I going to

Speaker:

tell you every single day? Yep, we're still waiting for

Speaker:

Google to index that page. Same as yesterday and

Speaker:

the day before. See you tomorrow for the exact same

Speaker:

update. And then there's the obsession with making freelancers use

Speaker:

your internal systems. And look, I've been doing this for three decades.

Speaker:

I've got processes that work across multiple clients. I've

Speaker:

refined these systems over years of trial and error. But sure,

Speaker:

let me abandon all of that to learn your bespoke project management

Speaker:

tool that someone's nephew built in 2019 and hasn't

Speaker:

been updated since. And don't get me started on the meetings.

Speaker:

Oh, God, the meetings. Can you join our weekly team?

Speaker:

Catch up? No, No, I cannot, because I

Speaker:

have other clients and I'm not sitting through 45 minutes of Barry

Speaker:

from accounts talking about the new coffee machine when I could be actually

Speaker:

doing the work you're paying me for. Because what businesses don't seem to

Speaker:

grasp is that when you hire a freelancer, you're not hiring

Speaker:

a remote employee. You're engaging an independent

Speaker:

business. Someone who brings expertise from working with

Speaker:

multiple clients across different industries. Someone who's

Speaker:

seen what works and what doesn't across dozens of different

Speaker:

situations. You chose a freelancer

Speaker:

specifically to avoid the management hassle. You

Speaker:

wanted results without the overheads of employment. So why are you

Speaker:

now trying to manage me like I'm fresh out of university and need

Speaker:

handholding through every decision? You're paying for my expertise.

Speaker:

Let me fucking use it. And then there's the

Speaker:

stay in your lane problem. That's the opposite end of the spectrum.

Speaker:

The clients who don't micromanage your process as such,

Speaker:

but do restrict your access to everything you need to deliver results.

Speaker:

When I ask for mobile versus desktop conversion data,

Speaker:

it's not because I'm bored and fancy a bit of one on one spreadsheet action

Speaker:

is because I can see your mobile traffic is bouncing and I suspect

Speaker:

your conversion rates are shite too. That information directly

Speaker:

affects my SEO recommendations. When I suggest changing

Speaker:

your call to action button test from Submit Inquiry,

Speaker:

which sounds like you're filing a complaint with the Council, to some things

Speaker:

that might actually encourage people to click it, that's not

Speaker:

me overstepping, that's me trying to make sure the traffic I bring you does

Speaker:

something useful. And when I ask for heatmap data to see

Speaker:

where people are giving up and leaving your pages, I'm not trying to steal

Speaker:

your UX team's job. I'm trying to understand user

Speaker:

behavior so I can optimize for it. Google's been clear about this

Speaker:

for years. User experience signals matter. If people

Speaker:

land on your site from A search result immediately think sod this

Speaker:

and go back to Google. That tells Google your page wasn't a good answer

Speaker:

to their query. Your rankings will suffer. So when you tell me to

Speaker:

stay in my lane and tell me to only worry about keywords and

Speaker:

rankings, you're asking me to do half a job.

Speaker:

And then you wonder why you're not getting the results you expected.

Speaker:

And there's a real cost of getting this wrong, because let's say your

Speaker:

SEO work successfully doubles your organic traffic

Speaker:

over six months. Brilliant. Except if your conversion rate

Speaker:

is rubbish, because nobody's looking at the user experience.

Speaker:

You've just doubled the number of people who visit your site and fuck right

Speaker:

off without buying anything or booking a call. Or maybe your

Speaker:

conversion rate is fantastic, but your mobile experience is so poor

Speaker:

that Google starts ranking you lower. And all that beautifully

Speaker:

converting traffic disappears. And nobody can figure out why,

Speaker:

because this is what happens when teams work in isolation

Speaker:

or when freelancers aren't given access to the full picture.

Speaker:

You optimize for one metric while accidentally sabotaging

Speaker:

another. You fix one problem, but you create three

Speaker:

more. And I've watched businesses spend thousands on

Speaker:

SEO to drive more traffic, then watch their inquiry numbers

Speaker:

stay flat because nobody thought to check if their contact forms worked on

Speaker:

a mobile. I've seen companies with brilliant

Speaker:

products lose rankings because their developers

Speaker:

optimized the site in ways that confuse search engines.

Speaker:

And nobody thought to involve the SEO person in that decision.

Speaker:

It's maddening and it's completely avoidable.

Speaker:

Okay, so here's the fix you've been waiting for.

Speaker:

So here's the fix you've been waiting for. How do you actually

Speaker:

work with an SEO expert, freelancer or otherwise, in

Speaker:

a way that gets you results. So first of all,

Speaker:

brief, properly up front. Spend time on

Speaker:

detailed project briefs or onboarding calls. Explain your

Speaker:

objectives, your expectations, your deadlines, and how you'll measure

Speaker:

success. Share relevant background about your business, your customers,

Speaker:

your competitors. Freelancers can't read your mind about your company

Speaker:

history or your own state of preferences. Secondly,

Speaker:

establish clear communication from the start. Agree on the

Speaker:

methods and frequency upfront. Some freelancers prefer

Speaker:

email, others use project tools. Some provide weekly

Speaker:

updates, some monthly. Others provide milestone check ins.

Speaker:

Figure out what works for both of you before the project

Speaker:

starts, not halfway through, when everybody's already pissed off.

Speaker:

Set response time expectations both ways. If you need

Speaker:

24 hour responses, discuss that during the talks.

Speaker:

And remember, it goes both ways. If you take two weeks to

Speaker:

approve something, don't expect the freelancer to magically absorb that

Speaker:

Delay. And for the love of all that is holy,

Speaker:

clarify what urgent actually means. If everything's

Speaker:

urgent, nothing is. Define what constitutes a real

Speaker:

emergency versus a standard turnaround time.

Speaker:

Thirdly, give your freelancer access to what they need. Your

Speaker:

SEO expert needs to see conversion data, user

Speaker:

behavior, insights, analytics. They need to understand what's

Speaker:

happening after people land on your site. If you're hiding this

Speaker:

information because it belongs to a different department, you're capping their

Speaker:

ability to deliver results. Let them talk to your developers when

Speaker:

technical changes are needed. Let them see your sales data so they

Speaker:

understand what makes customers buy. Stop treating information

Speaker:

like it's classified government secrets. You're not that important.

Speaker:

And fourthly, respect their expertise. You hired

Speaker:

your SEO because they know things you don't. So when they make

Speaker:

recommendations, don't demand that they justify every single one

Speaker:

with a detailed explanation of basic SEO principles

Speaker:

backed up by exact percentages or data of how much

Speaker:

traffic you'll get. If you want to understand their approach, ask

Speaker:

questions, but let them apply their professional judgment. And

Speaker:

if you disagree with a recommendation, have a conversation about it.

Speaker:

Don't just override them and then blame them when results don't

Speaker:

materialize. And fifthly, trust their

Speaker:

processors. Most good freelancers have systems refined

Speaker:

across multiple clients. These ensure consistent

Speaker:

quality and timely delivery. If you need specific tools or

Speaker:

methods, discuss that during hiring, not mid project, when

Speaker:

they've already set everything up. Don't micromanage their schedule or

Speaker:

ask for timesheets as long as deadlines are met. How they structure their

Speaker:

work time shouldn't be your concern. They might do their best work at

Speaker:

6 o' clock in the morning or still be squirreling away at midnight. It

Speaker:

doesn't matter as long as the work gets done. Freelancing isn't 9

Speaker:

to 5. Sixth and last plan for

Speaker:

success Book your freelancers in advance. Good

Speaker:

ones are scheduled weeks ahead. Plan for potential delays

Speaker:

on your end and factor those into project timelines.

Speaker:

Provide all the necessary resources up front. Passwords,

Speaker:

assets, access to systems, whatever they need to get started.

Speaker:

Nothing wastes time more than a freelancer sitting around

Speaker:

waiting for you to send them the login details you promised three days

Speaker:

ago. The choice here is pretty simple. You can respect your

Speaker:

SEO expert as an independent professional and get excellent results.

Speaker:

Or you can try to manage them like a junior employee while

Speaker:

simultaneously refusing to give them the information they need and

Speaker:

frustrate everyone involved. And good freelancers won't tolerate

Speaker:

either extreme for long. They'll find clients who understand

Speaker:

the value of expertise and independence, and you'll be back on

Speaker:

the market looking for another SEO person wondering why you keep

Speaker:

having the same problems. Your SEO expert isn't trying

Speaker:

to take over your business when they ask for conversion data or suggest

Speaker:

UX improvements. They're trying to make sure the traffic they bring

Speaker:

you actually makes you money. That's the whole point.

Speaker:

If this episode resonated with you, or if you want to share it with

Speaker:

a client who needs to hear it, make sure you're following SEO.

Speaker:

Fucking what? In whatever app you're using so you don't miss the next

Speaker:

episode. And if you've got a horror story about micromanagement

Speaker:

or being told to stay in your lane, drop me a message on

Speaker:

LinkedIn or by email. I'd love to hear it. I might even

Speaker:

put the best ones together for a future episode. Until next

Speaker:

time. Get found, make money. Been on

Speaker:

wanky.

Show artwork for SEO F**king What - Get Found on Google, make money from your website

About the Podcast

SEO F**king What - Get Found on Google, make money from your website
SEO advice that cuts through the crap and doesn't treat you like an idiot
This podcast exists because you deserve better than the SEO bollocks currently being sold to you.

Every week, I'll give you 10-15 minutes of straight talk about SEO. Practical advice that actually works for B2B websites trying to get found on Google/search and make money. The kind of stuff that's been proven over years, not dreamed up last Tuesday by some LinkedIn tosspot.

Real SEO from someone who's been doing this since dial-up was considered fast. I'll tell you what works, what's complete nonsense, and which tactics will get your website buried faster than you can say "guaranteed first page rankings."

I'm calling out the bullshitters. The agencies promising the world and delivering fuck all. The LinkedIn gooroos flogging courses about things that don't actually exist. The AI SEO "hacks" destroying perfectly good websites. The expensive tools you don't need. The "experts" who learned SEO from a YouTube video three months ago. If someone's talking bollocks about SEO, you'll hear about it here.

More importantly, I'm telling you what to do instead. Every rant comes with actual, practical steps you can take. Real actions that get results, not theory that sounds clever but does bugger all for your rankings. "Do this, then do that, and you'll see movement." That's it. That's the format.

You're running a B2B business or managing a B2B website. You've probably been burned by an SEO agency before. Maybe they took your money and delivered a fancy report full of words that meant absolutely nothing. Or they promised first page rankings and disappeared after six months of bugger all results.

You're sick of reading blog posts that say nothing in 2000 words. You're tired of SEO "tips" that are either blindingly obvious or completely bizarre. You want someone to cut through the crap and tell you what actually matters for your business, not what works for some massive ecommerce site with a budget the size of a small country.

You don't need a PhD in technical SEO. You need to know what's worth your time and what's complete bollocks. You need to know which tactics will actually bring in leads and which ones are just expensive ways to make yourself feel busy. That's what I'm here for.

This isn't some sanitised, corporate-approved SEO podcast where everyone's lovely and we pretend all tactics are equally valid. They're not. Some are brilliant. Most are pointless. And some will actively fuck up your website while the "expert" who recommended them is off selling the same dodgy advice to the next poor sod.

I swear. A lot. If that bothers you, there are plenty of other podcasts out there with hosts who never offend anyone. Go find them. They're very nice. They're also very boring.

This also isn't a podcast that assumes you're stupid. You're not. You're just busy running a business and don't have time to decode the latest algorithm update or work out which SEO tactic is legitimate and which one's complete fantasy.

Fifteen minutes. One topic. I'll tell you what's pissing me off this week in the SEO industry, why it matters to your website, and what you should actually do about it. Then I'm done. You can get back to running your business.

New episodes drop weekly, because the SEO industry creates fresh bullshit faster than I can rant about it. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next time some gooroo invents a new problem to sell you the solution to.

Welcome to SEO F**king What? Let's fix your website.

About your host

Profile picture for Nikki Pilkington

Nikki Pilkington

SEO consultant and copywriter who's spent 30 years watching people panic about algorithm updates while ignoring what actually works.

I help B2B businesses get found on Google without the jargon, false promises, or expensive courses targeting 0.19% of traffic. My morning starts with SE Ranking and Google Search Console because data beats hunches every time.

I don't do overnight results, premium-priced basic tactics, or clients I can't genuinely help. If you don't need my services, I'll tell you that too.

Fair warning: I'm a little bit sweary...